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Post by LA_Randy on Oct 18, 2023 15:15:50 GMT -5
Okay, so is Greene admitting that Jan 6 was an insurrection? 'This is an insurrection': Marjorie Taylor Greene loses it at Capitol protesters (…) "I don't represent you, lady," she told the woman. "The Capitol Police are not arresting these people. This is an insurrection." "Throw these people out," Greene added. "Like, what is happening? This is going to be a f-cking insurrection again." www.rawstory.com/this-is-an-insurrection-marjorie-taylor-greene-loses-it-at-capitol-protesters/
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Post by mrobvious on Oct 18, 2023 15:16:48 GMT -5
Does that hold if 2 switched from No to yea and 4 switched from yea to no? Which is what happened. Honestly, that puts Jordan ahead of McCarthy in my mind because McCarthy wasn't able to get any traction until the 12th vote because McCarthy was fucking terrible at this shit. So, will there not be a third vote until Jim knows he's moving in the right direction?
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Post by forgottenlord on Oct 18, 2023 15:26:41 GMT -5
Honestly, that puts Jordan ahead of McCarthy in my mind because McCarthy wasn't able to get any traction until the 12th vote because McCarthy was fucking terrible at this shit. So, will there not be a third vote until Jim knows he's moving in the right direction? It's harder to determine what the likely actions of one person than one organization. There's two mindsets at play here: 1) Now that he's had votes on consecutive days, it would be a sign of weakness to miss a day, indicating he's afraid of giving what amounts to a progress report 2) Better to be thought an idiot than to open your mouth My inclination is that he'll favor the former over the latter for the time being. The real question, and I have no idea what the answer is but I would generally assume it's longer than 1 day is how long he has before patience in the caucus runs out. If I were to guess.... it's ~30 days remaining on the CR so they might be willing to give him half of that before they start feeling pressure to try something else. I would not be shocked if it's 1 week from yesterday so pretty much anything in between would be extremely believable. I doubt it'll be less than that.
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Post by mrobvious on Oct 18, 2023 15:27:05 GMT -5
BTW, since Oct 7th, a day that will live in infamy, IDF and Israeli settlers have killed some 64 Palestinians on the West Bank. Not reported on of course.
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Post by mrobvious on Oct 18, 2023 15:28:33 GMT -5
So, will there not be a third vote until Jim knows he's moving in the right direction? It's harder to determine what the likely actions of one person than one organization. There's two mindsets at play here: 1) Now that he's had votes on consecutive days, it would be a sign of weakness to miss a day, indicating he's afraid of giving what amounts to a progress report 2) Better to be thought an idiot than to open your mouth My inclination is that he'll favor the former over the latter for the time being. The real question, and I have no idea what the answer is but I would generally assume it's longer than 1 day is how long he has before patience in the caucus runs out. If I were to guess.... it's ~30 days remaining on the CR so they might be willing to give him half of that before they start feeling pressure to try something else. I would not be shocked if it's 1 week from yesterday so pretty much anything in between would be extremely believable. I doubt it'll be less than that. Lord. This is one for the history books, as long as it is not written by Texas.
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Post by mrobvious on Oct 18, 2023 15:50:15 GMT -5
Now this is interesting. Wargaming is as far as I can tell originally a Russian company with a massive user base in Russia and their own servers. Wargaming has since 'moved' - I believe the CEO moved the development out of Russia due to fears of sanctions and loss of user base as Russia invaded Ukraine, now they're doing a day of unification around the Ukraine conflict with Ukraine color schemes for users in support of Ukraine. Which probably means that the user base in Russia has either shrunk so they need to expand it elsewhere or that they have a hard time realizing profits from their Russian base due to ongoing sanctions or the fact that 1 ruble is now worth 1 cent.
Whatever is the case, it appears that they're going to kick their roots in the scrotch for one reason or another.
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Post by forgottenlord on Oct 18, 2023 16:28:18 GMT -5
It's harder to determine what the likely actions of one person than one organization. There's two mindsets at play here: 1) Now that he's had votes on consecutive days, it would be a sign of weakness to miss a day, indicating he's afraid of giving what amounts to a progress report 2) Better to be thought an idiot than to open your mouth My inclination is that he'll favor the former over the latter for the time being. The real question, and I have no idea what the answer is but I would generally assume it's longer than 1 day is how long he has before patience in the caucus runs out. If I were to guess.... it's ~30 days remaining on the CR so they might be willing to give him half of that before they start feeling pressure to try something else. I would not be shocked if it's 1 week from yesterday so pretty much anything in between would be extremely believable. I doubt it'll be less than that. Lord. This is one for the history books, as long as it is not written by Texas. I mean.... this is so normal in the International level. McCarthy lost a Confidence vote. If it were most other nations, that would mean we're headed to an election. America's just not designed for the question "what if the legislature loses confidence?"
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Post by mrobvious on Oct 18, 2023 16:28:33 GMT -5
I vaguely remembered his name since the COVID years feels like a millions years ago. Anyways, degrees don't always make smart people.
One thing that I have noticed among the idiots (this one claims to be liberal and social-libertarians on idiot on the left I guess) is how often the confuse everything with politics. Like COVID. Everything that happens is now a result of politics/COVID. Same on the idiot right. People dying in sports - COVID. Sans any evidence of course. A lot of people broke their brain during COVID. It became almost faith in opposing anything COVID related.
The sad part is of course how people appears to authority just to peddle nonsense. Even among people who should view the scientific method as sacrosanct for their profession.
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Post by mrobvious on Oct 18, 2023 16:31:31 GMT -5
Lord. This is one for the history books, as long as it is not written by Texas. I mean.... this is so normal in the International level. McCarthy lost a Confidence vote. If it were most other nations, that would mean we're headed to an election. America's just not designed for the question "what if the legislature loses confidence?" Normal? How many times have this happened in modern House history? I couldn't find a lot of data on that, but I 'heard' that it was relatively rare. Unlike in parliamentarian systems where the inability to form a voting block can doom any party in a vote of no confidence. Just see the mess in Britain not that long ago.
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Post by forgottenlord on Oct 18, 2023 16:47:51 GMT -5
I mean.... this is so normal in the International level. McCarthy lost a Confidence vote. If it were most other nations, that would mean we're headed to an election. America's just not designed for the question "what if the legislature loses confidence?" Normal? How many times have this happened in modern House history? I couldn't find a lot of data on that, but I 'heard' that it was relatively rare. Unlike in parliamentarian systems where the inability to form a voting block can doom any party in a vote of no confidence. Just see the mess in Britain not that long ago. The difference between America and a parliamentary system is immaterial. We're talking about examples where the *lower house* of the *legislative branch* had the *governing party* suffer a revolt *by their backbenchers* resulting in a *change in leadership* or even a collapse in the government. It's the *exact* same thing.
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Post by mrobvious on Oct 18, 2023 17:03:28 GMT -5
Normal? How many times have this happened in modern House history? I couldn't find a lot of data on that, but I 'heard' that it was relatively rare. Unlike in parliamentarian systems where the inability to form a voting block can doom any party in a vote of no confidence. Just see the mess in Britain not that long ago. The difference between America and a parliamentary system is immaterial. We're talking about examples where the *lower house* of the *legislative branch* had the *governing party* suffer a revolt *by their backbenchers* resulting in a *change in leadership* or even a collapse in the government. It's the *exact* same thing. But surely there's a difference in how the two system works, both for transitional purposes, but also the function. In the House the change is simply a matter of change of speakership and the chaos I would surmise is because of the fact that this is a rare occurrence. In a parliamentarian system it can either lead to an election or the change of the head of state (premier minister) and its entire cabinet. There's nothing in the speakership that leads to a collapse of the government. The executive branch will continue to function without issue and the Senate is still there. Legislative gridlock in a parliamentarian system usually means political shift. The speakership debacle shitshow is more a case of embarrassment, at least in the short run. Now having this happen so close to the budget issue is more incidental than a natural occurrence.
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Post by forgottenlord on Oct 18, 2023 17:23:09 GMT -5
The difference between America and a parliamentary system is immaterial. We're talking about examples where the *lower house* of the *legislative branch* had the *governing party* suffer a revolt *by their backbenchers* resulting in a *change in leadership* or even a collapse in the government. It's the *exact* same thing. But surely there's a difference in how the two system works, both for transitional purposes, but also the function. In the House the change is simply a matter of change of speakership and the chaos I would surmise is because of the fact that this is a rare occurrence. In a parliamentarian system it can either lead to an election or the change of the head of state (premier minister) and its entire cabinet. There's nothing in the speakership that leads to a collapse of the government. The executive branch will continue to function without issue and the Senate is still there. Legislative gridlock in a parliamentarian system usually means political shift. The speakership debacle shitshow is more a case of embarrassment, at least in the short run. Now having this happen so close to the budget issue is more incidental than a natural occurrence. The core isn't the speakership. The core is party politics. About members of the party disagreeing with the way the party is being run and seeing a path for a more viable alternative. Also, the more I think about it, the more I realize that this has happened in very recent memory. John Boehner was forced to resign because the lunatics of his party were fed up with the fact that that he reached deals with the Democrats to keep the government from collapsing entirely into extended shutdowns. The only difference was that there was an heir apparent that moderates and lunatics found palatable in Paul Ryan - and the belief at the time was that if Paul Ryan wouldn't do it, nobody else could unite the party. You could also make the argument that Republicans had similar leadership instabilities in the late 90s and early 00s though I am nowhere near as well versed in it. To me, it seems like the difference this time was they wouldn't accept the next man up from the establishment. And I find myself back at the well of "because McCarthy was fucking terrible"
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Post by LA_Randy on Oct 18, 2023 18:21:25 GMT -5
We will see.
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Post by mrobvious on Oct 18, 2023 19:02:16 GMT -5
But surely there's a difference in how the two system works, both for transitional purposes, but also the function. In the House the change is simply a matter of change of speakership and the chaos I would surmise is because of the fact that this is a rare occurrence. In a parliamentarian system it can either lead to an election or the change of the head of state (premier minister) and its entire cabinet. There's nothing in the speakership that leads to a collapse of the government. The executive branch will continue to function without issue and the Senate is still there. Legislative gridlock in a parliamentarian system usually means political shift. The speakership debacle shitshow is more a case of embarrassment, at least in the short run. Now having this happen so close to the budget issue is more incidental than a natural occurrence. The core isn't the speakership. The core is party politics. About members of the party disagreeing with the way the party is being run and seeing a path for a more viable alternative. Also, the more I think about it, the more I realize that this has happened in very recent memory. John Boehner was forced to resign because the lunatics of his party were fed up with the fact that that he reached deals with the Democrats to keep the government from collapsing entirely into extended shutdowns. The only difference was that there was an heir apparent that moderates and lunatics found palatable in Paul Ryan - and the belief at the time was that if Paul Ryan wouldn't do it, nobody else could unite the party. You could also make the argument that Republicans had similar leadership instabilities in the late 90s and early 00s though I am nowhere near as well versed in it. To me, it seems like the difference this time was they wouldn't accept the next man up from the establishment. And I find myself back at the well of "because McCarthy was fucking terrible" What I find interesting is the reversal. The lunatics like Jim because they're like him, whereas what could be considered 'moderates' if that is even a thing anymore, don't. So we had 8 defectors over McCarthy and we have the reverse with Jim and I don't see anyone that would be able to please both sides of the caucus.
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Post by mrobvious on Oct 18, 2023 19:03:33 GMT -5
I would love it. I can't think of a worse GOPer for the job and there's plenty to choose from.
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Post by mrobvious on Oct 18, 2023 19:10:14 GMT -5
The funny part about Fox fuming about the travesty of this speakership stuff, isn't that they care much about who ends up as a speaker, but rather the perception of chaos. They keep blaming the Dems of course, but I bet their viewers are not quite that stupid. And that's the thing; they've painted GOP as the moral value alpha guys and liberals as amoral perverts, ready to create a nanny state and abort all babies after birth.
This age of Trumpism is exactly as we all knew it would be. A fucking shitshow. And as the idiot right wed itself to such an amoral, criminal pile of dung, the MAGA spores from the brain mold has infested the entire party.
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Post by mrobvious on Oct 18, 2023 19:36:47 GMT -5
Honest question. Now when Israel have managed to destabilize the region with their over reach, either by statement and continued action. With protests from Turkey to North Africa, was it worth it for Europe and USA to give Israel a free pass on the continued atrocities?
What will the region think when Israel move forward with taking parts of Gaza and what amount of dead will make things worse?
I doubt there will be another war; but there might be more international incidents as a result. There are a lot of comparisons with Ukraine and the situation in Israel, but the reason they fall flat is because Israel has been the aggressor since the 1940's. And none of this will count much if Israel keep justifying it with what Hamas did, because unlike the western world, the people in the region know what Israel have been doing.
If you discount what Iran might be saying right now; I doubt there are many in the region that cares for Iran. Certainly not Jordan that has been dealing with their proxies for a while. Or Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Turkey. But these leaders still has to be mindful of what regular folks think.
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Post by mrobvious on Oct 18, 2023 19:37:10 GMT -5
Right, for the children. Fucking idiots.
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Post by forgottenlord on Oct 18, 2023 19:52:50 GMT -5
Honest question. Now when Israel have managed to destabilize the region with their over reach, either by statement and continued action. With protests from Turkey to North Africa, was it worth it for Europe and USA to give Israel a free pass on the continued atrocities? What will the region think when Israel move forward with taking parts of Gaza and what amount of dead will make things worse? I doubt there will be another war; but there might be more international incidents as a result. There are a lot of comparisons with Ukraine and the situation in Israel, but the reason they fall flat is because Israel has been the aggressor since the 1940's. And none of this will count much if Israel keep justifying it with what Hamas did, because unlike the western world, the people in the region know what Israel have been doing. If you discount what Iran might be saying right now; I doubt there are many in the region that cares for Iran. Certainly not Jordan that has been dealing with their proxies for a while. Or Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Turkey. But these leaders still has to be mindful of what regular folks think. Do you mean a free pass over the last two weeks or a free pass upon all the shit prior to this?
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Post by mrobvious on Oct 18, 2023 21:00:09 GMT -5
Honest question. Now when Israel have managed to destabilize the region with their over reach, either by statement and continued action. With protests from Turkey to North Africa, was it worth it for Europe and USA to give Israel a free pass on the continued atrocities? What will the region think when Israel move forward with taking parts of Gaza and what amount of dead will make things worse? I doubt there will be another war; but there might be more international incidents as a result. There are a lot of comparisons with Ukraine and the situation in Israel, but the reason they fall flat is because Israel has been the aggressor since the 1940's. And none of this will count much if Israel keep justifying it with what Hamas did, because unlike the western world, the people in the region know what Israel have been doing. If you discount what Iran might be saying right now; I doubt there are many in the region that cares for Iran. Certainly not Jordan that has been dealing with their proxies for a while. Or Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Turkey. But these leaders still has to be mindful of what regular folks think. Do you mean a free pass over the last two weeks or a free pass upon all the shit prior to this? Free pass this time around. Because Biden just got cancelled on by 3 regional leaders. Israel might not give a shit, but it is the kind of instability I bet Biden don't want to deal with or want to be dragged into. I know Bibi and the idiot right want us to expand the conflict to Iran, but there is about no one else that do.
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